Second Life Addiction?

Update 1/29/2009:

I am in contact with TypePad to see if there is a way to make the commenting user interface on this blog easier to use. Stay tuned.

A quick note: I have no guidelines or expectations as to the kinds of discussions associated with this post. I have not entered Second Life in years and was not addicted in the deep sense that some folks have described. I do manage the blog and update it in order to maintain the vibrant, robust community that has emerged organically around this particular post.

Perhaps it is part of the regular pattern of becoming acquainted with a new computer game, but I have been addicted recently to Second Life. This may explain the spotty blog entries this past week.

It is not exactly a "game" and it may not be a new concept (since "The Sims Online" was one of the originators). However, the execution of Second Life is, I believe, quite stunning and unique. In a nutshell, a company in San Francisco has created a digital world and allowed you to populate it with your avatar.

Once you have you alter ego online, you simply roam around, chat with people, play games, buy land, build homes, create objects you may want to sell for the local currency (Linden Dollars) and so on. What makes this unique -- there is no ultimate goal or quest; people simply form emerging social and dwelling systems and economies: a laissez-faire experiment in a digital petrie dish.

The objects you create can involve complex scripting -- for instance, you may create a doorbell on your Second Life home that triggers an e-mail and/or IM alert in your First Life. The world comes pre-populated with a roster of such objects but intrepid scripters and builders have been creating their own inventions and distributing them or selling them. This creativity has caused the company hosting the world to address intellectual/digital property rights -- good news: you make it, it's yours...digitally, at least.

In the past few days, my character has bought land, designed and built a home, had guests over, gone to a strip club, gone to a dance club, bid for new land in an auction, participated in movie trivia games for Linden Dollars, and much more.

Have a look -- don't get too addicted.

| PC Magazine review of Second Life  | 
|  Article on Second Life and legal issues from LawMeme @ Yale University  |
|  Wired Magazine article  |

Update 9/5/2008:

This particular entry has become an important location for many people who have shared their stories surrounding their relationship to the game for over four years. I have kept this blog up-and-running, in part, to allow this community to keep flourishing and evolving. If you want to help me a bit with by minimizing the dent of the yearly fee to keep the blog running, please feel free to send a donation via secure PayPal. No obligation, of course.

Comments

[Julie]

Looking at statistics, 1% of society are psychopathic. This does not sound a lot until you realise that that is 1 out of every 100 people. As sl is a place that would draw individuals that are looking for a kind of 'victim' - even if they conveniently place those as 'fantasy fodder' it goes without saying that the estimate would be a whole lot higher. They would also feel quite entitled to play with the chosen victim as they would see that it was fair game as the victim was online there in the first place ie, basically asked for it. Some of the worst killers have been termed as Narcissistic Fantasists'. All this is easily verifiable with research.

[DrTime]

When I found out how deep my wives addiction was. I started to look to see how much I could find out about the man she was talking to. I did not know what kind of person he was so I needed to know. So within just a few hours of looking I had his cell phone and house and work number. As well as the address of all of the above. What was even more disturbing was I knew his wives name and where she worked and even more scary his daughters school.

Second Life is dangerous because some or most people let to much info out. I want every one to know that the only reason that I checked him out was to see if my family was in danger. I have been lucky so far he seems to be no danger to my family or me. I just wonder if he knows how much danger he can put his family or himself in just by playing sl.

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

The reason I enjoy these posts is it confirms things I said to my partner all along. When he became addicted I constantly questioned him about the info he was sharing in world. He swore you had to stay in character or you could be banned from the game/guild. Yet funny everyone in his guild knew where we/everyone lived and what each other did for a living despite playing Vampires 24/7. Lots of very personal details were shared in the group which I took as very scary warning signs as a real problem. Hell he even took pics of his real work clothes to wear them and other real clothes in SL which others used to find out even more info about us and our location.

When everyone in the group finally figured out he and another female lived close. They/she constantly pressured him to meet up in real life and for them to 'marry' in the game and 'make it real' for every ones fantasy. Despite all (including the female) claiming it was all just a game and that I (his real wife) was the one with the problem as none of their real partners had problems and hey they were all of 'professional job status' so that must mean they were all normal, lol right? These are all things he would never do with strangers in the real world. He never cheated in real life, but I certainly felt cheated on when I found out he had married in the game and all that was going on! Yet in SL he was just another silly addict to into their SECOND LIFE to care about their real first one or the real damage it was causing. Thank God we worked REALLY HARD at changing things around. Now that he can see beyond the SL game haze he realizes how foolish and dangerous he was being.

Hearing the posts here lets me know I was right to do be so worried. And that I am not the only one thinking these 'paranoid' thoughts about using games or the internet to do damage to others. Look at all the harm written about SL in these posts. That's proof enough to me that SL is already a 'serial killer' whether a real one ever shows up to anyones door or not. Ha! Ha!

[Lgt]

Vanity, your posts are valuable to me because they are honest. When I was on sl I deliberately DIDN'T look up people's real information because that would have ruined the fantasy for me. I wanted to be in a cloud of denial. If I had known up front all the details of my friends and partners I would not have been able to immerse myself in the fantasy. Knowing a bit more about people I gave my cell phone number, email and real name to would have been a good idea, but hey, I was an addict in denial.

On the flip side, people looked me up all the time and then triumpantly shared personal info about me to other people on sl. I once had someone ask me for a job because someone had done some research and found out where I worked. Needless to say, I started toning down what I shared with people after that...

It wasn't just outside of sl that people tried to find stuff out. There were many people on sl that would obsessively save and notecard EVERY conversation they had, and then they would cut and paste snippets of the conversations to other people to cause drama, or would cut and paste pieces of past conversations into present ones to point out inconsistencies. I always found this very creepy. In sl one should NEVER assume privacy, even in im sex, etc. It's all just part of the general creepiness that can happen in sl.

What always used to creep me out were people who created alts to spy on their so called "loves" or who would have different avatars, all partnered to different people. I think that pretty much sums up in metaphor how sl relationships are not real. The avatar you are partnered to, may have 10 alts partnered to ten other people, or at least one other alt that has a full sl life, including a partner.

[Vanity]

It bugs me that someone might think of my words as disturbing, I admit to that.
BUT I also want to mention that I am a mother of two girls. I, at some point, will share my acquired knowledge with them. To warn them of the creatures that are out there, that you don't want to meet in a dark alley at night, or the last train for the day. I have met men like that, I know the influence a close person can have, it's freakishly close. And when that happens and no one in your life says "gosh, youre so stupid, you gotta stop!" (like it happened to me before) then maybe, to read a different opinion from a stranger on a blog, might make you halt for a second to think clearly.
So, if someone addicted to SL is reading this and feels a connection to this mindset, I would happily take every criticism. Bringing me back to the origin of this blog about the over use of SL.

You may find friends in the oddest times in your life, but you may also find a freak in disguise.

[Julie]

Vanity, please do not go - your post was very interesting and it is the kind of thing that should be read by anyone who is trying to get away from being tied to sl. I also like to research things, in this case, every aspect of second life. It does make me so annoyed to see the way linden make out that it is such a marvellous tool - but they say next to nothing about the destructive side. What is most sickening is that the users literally pay money to have their lives ruined in one way or another. This blog really is the only place where all the information has been collected on how destructive it is, so I think the more opinions and ideas the better to help those struggling see the truth of second life.
In the short time I was there I conducted a small experiment. I asked around 20 odd people whether they would close their eyes and pick a phone number out of their phone book, phone that number and tell the person on the other end of the line all their details. Not one would. It seems that because the little cartoon avatars around them look normal - they are willing to share all. Now that is disturbing...

[Vanity]

Julie : I researched details to see how far one can go with little information in a short amount of time.

Kit : I didn't mean for my post to be disturbing, but am aware that I wasn't talking about fluffy puppies.

I also didn't write this for the shock factor, I'm a non expert and perhaps a bit paranoid (in the -common sense- use of the word). It's a thought, I had that's been running through my head occasionally, an assumption, a question, just a statement really.

If it's too disturbing, delete me.

[Julie]

Vanity has been honest and open enough to share some things on here. He/she is aware enough to know that what he/she does might sound sick to others. Although isn't this a form of what all sl addicts are on sl for? They aren't exactly on it to be solitary and mind their own business. I think with the fantasy element making things seem better than in reality, stalking and spying are bound to be very prevalent. Vanity is the harmless one, it would be the one with repressed boundless rage doing the same thing as Vanity that you would not wish to meet on a dark night in reality. Vanity, what drove you to so thoroughly research people - you mentioned 'filling in the puzzle'?

[Kit]

This last post was very disturbing.

[Vanity]

Far before discovering SL, being somewhat paranoid myself, I always tried to find out more about people with the help of the internet. Having the idea of someone spying on me, like I was spying on them. In my time on SL, I've met several people that casually mentioned details of their RL. Having these details I've been able to find out where they life exactly, phone numbers, relatives names, other user accounts on different sites (i.e. accumulating information with more details to fill the puzzle). Sounds sick I know, but having in mind the mindset of a sociopath/serial killer, I wanted to find the most I could.

I'm nowhere close to ever harm anyone, but there are people out there, that will use all this to make someone a DESIRABLE target. Desirable because, knowing sex life details, fantasies, at best even real fears, that I think would have to make it more interesting to torture/kill someone.

Is that a too far fetched thought? I don't know. But thinking about how much time some people spend in SL, some people should be more careful.

[Lgt]

Julie, I think your question is really interesting. My sl club glorified drugs and sex and therefore attracted some fringe types. I created the club and sim to look like a big, dark city, filled with vices and dangers. It was not a role play sim, but attracted those who liked drugs and those who liked sex both deviant and "vanilla".

Most of the real fringe members who showed up, people who were into violence, age play, toilet play, abuse, etc, had been doing this kind of thing online for years in sex chat rooms. They came to SL because it was visual as well as chat, but they were long time online role players and had used the web for years to get their fetishes played out with others.

Do I think that an environment that combines anonymity with violence is a recipe for murder and real life rape. Yes. I think if a person who is a sociopath or psychopath spends a lot of time on sl in sims that glorify or normalize extreme violence, that person will be way more likely to act out in real life. I did not allow age play or extreme violence on my sim, but people could have been hiding in a corner doing it anyway (or they simply went to another sim to do it). SL is a self selecting environment. You can surround yourself with people that allow you to do just about anything and that have the same hangups and fetishes and issues that you do. This will make extreme behavior seem "normal".

Why did I take a risk and meet these men in rl? That is an excellent question. Part of it truly was the adreneline rush of the danger, the stepping out of a safe zone (sl) into a potentially dangerous zone (real life). I could have been hurt, I just got lucky. None of my partners in sl were psychopaths. All of them were some version of sex addict though. At this point I was in the throes of my sl addiction, and was not behaving responsibly. I liken it to a woman who goes into a bar in a big city and has a one night stand with a stranger. Why? For me it was a combination of loneliness, despair and depression that caused me to crave an adreneline rush to feel alive. Also, I had invested so much time in sl, I wanted to believe that it was my real life too, so I let these men into my real life to make time investment seem valid.

Also, to be honest, in my addicted state of mind, I really thought that my relationships with these men were real, not fantasies. There is tremendous pressure in sl to take relationships outside of sl. It is a validating experience. If the relationship goes outside the game, then it must be real and not a game, etc...

In the two cases where I had real life sex with my sl partners, upon meeting them, I immediately knew that it wasn't going to work out in real life. But I wasn't in danger. In fact it was pretty much exactly like meeting someone on an online dating site, and finally meeting them in person, only to find out they are nothing like the person they pretended to be in their profile.

Anyway, this is a very interesting topic and I really enjoy your posts Julie.

Lgt

[Julie]

Lgt, I am hoping that you don't mind me asking you a question, you need not answer if you don't wish to. What I would like to know is why was it quite normal to befriend a completely totally anonymous stranger(s) who could well be your worst nightmare in reality and who could use this medium to totally fool you - and even worse - find out where you live etc? You strike me as being above average intelligence and know what you want from life - so you would be a good person to ask. At least on dating sites, there are real photo's and less chance of fake personas (although those are always risky too). Could you maybe have been addicted to the risk without knowing it?

I agree, not everyone is addicted to sl, but they are severely attached to some thrill they get out of whatever action they went in and found. Especially if they can get the thrill without paying the consequences. Only problem is, they get addicted to the idea and take it to reality. Cool if that is just a little black rubber and whip stuff with consenting folk, but what about the darker section? This is why I am so interested in this topic. Like already said there are some very controlling people in some very dark areas - the odds are that with all these factors added up, I would not be surprised if a serial killer emerged. The medium is perfect and makes an amazing feeding ground for a predator killer, who, by the way, can be the most charming of all the charmers. All the lonely victims are ready made and waiting instruction, and sadly if they were to vanish off the face of this earth, maybe it would be a long time before anyone noticed...
The above has happened already via another computer chat site.

[Lgt]

In all honesty, I do not think that everyone who goes on to sl is addicted. (although I DO think that Dave is addicted...) Going on to sl once a month to engage in a sexual fetish is the same as watching porn once a month, only more interactive. It could turn into an addiction if it is substituted for real life relationships, etc. Some people have fetishes that are hard to indulge in in real life and sl fills that need.

For me my sl addiction happened gradually. I started sl joining it for the creative possibilities working with video and 3d textures, machinima, etc. I joined at the height of the media hype so I thought sl was going to be the next big media forum and that I should get ahead of the curve. I then got into "relationships" and sl sex and gradually spent all my time doing non creative things on sl. But in the beginning, I was not logging into sl every day. For me, I started using the game to fill my real needs bit by bit.

I agree with Julie that sl felt real. I still have flashback and memories of my sl experiences exactly the same way I have flashbacks of my real life relationships. It's weird, I think lsd is a good metaphor.

Lgt

[Julie]

That question has been the biggest one that interests me, aside from the sexual fetish or whatever one does choose to do in sl. I have played bits here and there of ordinary computer games, xbox Harry Potter (not live) as it is something I enjoy participating in with my daughter, we laugh over it, but both of us are not affected in any way by playing those.. and it is only about 3 hours per month. This is where it gets strange though - when I had my sojourn into second life, and I find this hard to put into words, it did not seem to be parked in the game compartment of my mind. It was more confusing as if real memories or real life events were being formed. I was only there a short time (thank goodness in hindsight) but I still get flashbacks of a conversation or outfit and I have to keep chucking it back into the 'doesn't belong in real memory' zone. I was chatting to a psychologist friend about this who thinks it may stimulate the brain with the same effect as LSD - one starts to lose the ability to tell that which is real from that which is not. People on a bad LSD trip truly believe their false flashbacks - some have been known to self destruct while doing so. So, no I do not think it wise to mess with your mind, you may be young and mentally alert now but what happens later when memory does start to confuse itself, which happens with older folk who have never played a MMORPG in their lives... dementia is not pretty so why encourage it? People bang on about the bad effects of smoking, drinking etc but no-one seems to give a toss about looking after their own mental function which is as in need of care as their body.

[Vanity]

Does anyone of you think that if, as a SL resident, keeping out of intimate relationships and only explore your sexual fetish ON OCCASION (once a month), that you can live in this virtual environment in a healthy way?

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

Wow, Gerald I am glad to hear your good news as well!!! It seems all the people I thought had fallen off the planet lately have shown up here in the past month, lol. So happy to hear your life is also back on track and that putting your real family first is giving you the most valuable yet free thing of all= real love & happiness!!! If nothing else I think this world recession we are in is giving people a new found respect for the simpler things in life. Yes real life is messy and not always perfect, but as you say so much more rewarding than a surrogate SL substitute. Thanks for the insight, really made my day!!!

[Lgt]

Gerard, it's so good to hear from you and to see that you are doing well! I totally relate to you and all your posts and I am genuinely happy to see that you are finding real life happiness like I am.

I went back and saw that the last time I posted before I posted my epilogue story was in December. The reason I left was that Dave was ruining the board by attacking every poster and making the same point over and over again that he is not an sl addict and that sl is a creative and wonderful place to be.

It's not a coincidence that the posts in the last several months on this blog went way down. I think many of us just got fed up with this being the Dave blog. Well, I for one truly want this to be a blog about SL addiction, where we can all support each other. I will do whatever I can to keep this from being the Dave blog.

I especially agree that sl is about control. I created a sim and club and controlled every aspect of it. All of my relationships in sl were either about controlling another person or about them controlling me. (I controlled all of my employees as the owner of a club, but I let the men in my sl relationships control me). Often I would have fights with my "friends" in sl. (sl breeds drama and fights, it keeps the adreneline going so people will not notice now bored they are....) When I had fights with my sl friends I would put them on mute and ban them from my land. How infantile is that? I can't believe how controlling and infantile my behavior was, but that is what sl brought out in me. I am so grateful that I am not treating people as disposable any more. Now if I have a fight with someone, I work it out. I listen, and hopefully, I learn from the experience.

Anyway, just some thoughts....

Lgt

[Gerard]

Haven't looked here for a while, because, well, nothing happened, but now, there's so much going on here! I'm glad to see the insights and to see how fighting the addiction really helps getting your life back.

I am glad to see Lgt back, stronger and wiser than ever, and I am so happy about the positive changes in her life, studying arts and all. I think you have every reason to be proud of yourself, and it feels good to read your comments again, right on target every time.

Since leaving SL app one year ago, my life has changed too. My family and I have moved to another city, close to where I was born, and it feels great. My children are doing real well here, our life is picking up again, and my job feels good, my manager tells me I'm doing real well, and even though the world is in crisis, we're not doing so bad at all. Lots better than when I was looking at my screen all day long to lead a surrogate life in SL.

Also, I feel sorry for Dave. He may be an obnoxious git, but it's tough to see someone suffer like he does. I hope he finds his way out of SL and back to life again...

Anyway, It's good to see you're all doing so well, keep up the fight, it's worth it!

Cheers,

Gerard.

[Lgt]

It's funny that when I posted my positive epilogue to my successful year long fight with sl addiction last week, Dave was nowhere to be found. Not one positive comment was posted. If Dave were truly "here to help" he would have encouraged me in some way. But my positive post did nothing to feed his ego and his delusion that he is on sl "to create art". I joined sl to "create art" too, ended up addicted, and it was only when I left sl for good that I had the energy to go back to my graduate art program and create real life art. When Dave cannot be the center of attention, he ignores this blog and I do not think that that is a helpful trait.

Dave I really do feel for you because your story is such a sad one. It reminds me of the old movie "Days of Wine and Roses" with Jack Lemmon and Lee Remick where a woman becomes an alcoholic to save her marriage to an alcoholic, and then he gets well and leaves her because she is now too addicted to stop.

This blog is NOT about you Dave, you are one poster among many. I left this blog in January because your egotistical, self-delusional, monopolization of each and every topic got to be too much to deal with. But I am back to help those who want it, and I will not be deterred this time by you. I see your predatory, delusional posts as a cry for help.

Lgt

[lynn]

My opinion is that if someone likes sl that's cool. I was one who loved sl. I left. this move saved my relationship and probably my life. I know that seems dramatic. I got so wrapped up in these so called relationships I contemplated moving in with my sl love. And this would have placed me across the country with a very controlling man. The relationship fortunately fizzled but the friendship remained until I left sl. Big suprise isn't it. Julie got it right. There are the controllers in sl that if challenged will simply "delete" your ass.I've been deleted. Do I care? Nope. I am thrilled to be gone. Thrilled to have my real life back, even with all of its unpleasant issues, they are real at least. I dont think its a good idea to ever count on anyone in sl.

[Julie]

Dave NM - You have left your entire life story on this blog, beginning from a long time ago. You have opened yourself up for comments/critisism - nobody forced you to do that. You shout out about 'being attacked' when people oppose your views... However I see you as the person who is trapped and desperate, as you stated that you don't get anything from sl anymore - but unfortunately your wife still does.... I see you on your knees here - feeding your demons to keep them quiet, but for how long can you maintain this state of affairs? If you were so happy or content with your lot you most certainly wouldn't be so attached to this blog? You are welcome to get verbally nasty but I won't respond, you see, why kick a man who is already on the ground...

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

Yeap, another heart felt poignant post from our residential SL TROLL. Wouldn't have expected anything less, as always thanks for the laughs you give us all:)

[Dave in NM]

Blah blah blah - I will continue to do what I came here to do. That you people have to make up lies about me in order to rationalize your attacks says way more about you all than it does about me. Next time I can help someone here, I will, as I have before, and in the meantime, you liars can pretty much lick my sack.

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

Ha, ha, ha oh SL TROLL you totally crack me up!!! So now your here to discuss SL addiction? Funny you spent months claiming this board wasn't even meant for just discussions on SL addiction, lol. In fact you have did nothing (since cowing down to your own real life wife's ultimatums on joining SL) other than spewing forth what you now consider some expertise advice about 'if you can't beat them, than just join them in SL'. Yeah, that's some great advice on SL ADDICTION. And yes by all means constantly trying to convince everyone that your SL love is real and genuine and somehow different than all the others who come here and claim otherwise (about their own experiences) is really not making this board all about you now is it?!?

Do I think it's fate that you went in world and picked exactly what you are lacking in the real world in your own life=NO. You wanted a real wife and since yours would rather play a game (and I would bet quite differently on the love/sex aspect than your own) you went in world and sought out exactly that, a pretend partner. Since your SL partner must also be lacking this in the real world, she sought you out as well. It's as simple as that and nothing more that keeps you 2 lovebirds together. The sad part is you now admit you've grown tired of this GAME but still need to find reasons to stay vested as your real life wife is and has told you she will never leave SL. So you took your SL relationship to the next level and outside the game to make it seem more real. Nothing really new there either as plenty have did so and even met in real life to try to fake it a while longer. The facts remain, the problems that drove you and your real wife in world must still exist or you would have both moved on from the fantasy of SL by now. Until you really deal with those issues and stop faking it to run off to the game & others, you will always be here giving your oh so special expert advice as that's all you have to offer.

Do I hate SL? Yes! Along with anything else that keeps people alone, stagnant or in denial of enjoyment in the real world & life. Yet the only angry person here is you as you know your real wife would still rather play a game and love a fantasy rather than you or your real life children and everyone here can see that but you and for that I actually feel really sorry. It must be scary to still know if you now leave the game she will still be there getting her needs met and you'll then have to deal with the mess you 2 have made and all the real life time wasted there in. Gee isn't that exactly what led you here to begin with??? Just more proof that the only irrational 1 sided views are your own SL TROLL!!!

[Julie]

Dave NM, you cannot control this blog as much as you try, just as you cannot control your real wife and mistress situation anymore UNLESS you keep it all in sl. By trying to contol your environment you have effectively lost control - the machine literally has run away with your life... Make a stand, gain it back and let things be how they turn out to be... it is honestly not that hard. Then come back and tell us all how great you feel, because you will. :) Maybe the special friend you have on sl deserves to be set free to find herself a man who will be with her in body, mind and soul.

[Fedupwith SL]

It seems that the control issuse may spill over on to this blog. Dave is the one that is controling this board with his never ending banter, and we as a group keeping letting it happen. By getting into yet another debate with him. I say let him tell his boring storys and simply just do not reply to them. That is what I will be doing from here on out.

[Dave in NM]

OMG, SGP - I am not the one making this about me! The SL haters have made this board all about me, because I have the temerity to express a different opinion, and not just agree with everyone that SL is a homogeneous whole, and all its residents identical, soulless clones. I am not here to convince anyone of anything; I am here to discuss the topic of SL addiction, and offer help to people I can help. If I disagree that everyone in SL is the same, how is that making this all about me? (Seriously - no need to answer that - we all know this forum is all about you and your irrational, monolithic view of SL.)

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

No one can or wants to convince you of anything Dave because believe it or not, people are not here for that purpose. Despite your countless attempts, people come here for their own reasons and they are not all about you!!! No one wants to 'mind battle' you about SL because that's not the purpose here. As much as it kills you Dave, this board is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!! If you want a battle go in world and play the game as that's the only place you are going to get one these days SL TROLL!!!

[Dave in NM]

Lgt: You've convinced me. All people are exactly the same.

[Julie]

Could it be an issue of control? Yes Dave I do agree that one cannot generalise but there is a common theme here which runs through under the issue. There seems to be the Controlling types and the ones who are controlled out of seeing sl as too real. The controller wants to keep his/her environment exactly how it suits him/her. If one does not follow his/her way then one can be deleted - it is as simple as that. Now, would you wish to know one of these types in reality? Certainly not, they are capable of dropping you as soon as you challenge them in any way. This is why they drop you when you leave sl, as they no longer have strings on you. They are driven to be that way from fear. They cannot go out into reality and enjoy the roller coaster ride of life, thrive on the highs and take a challenge from the lows, seek the unpredictablility of strange places and different real personalities - it is all far too threatening for them. So they sit online controlling the next sucker that comes their way. Maybe this is why so many 'master and servant' games thrive on sl. Be the one who has the balls to chuck yourself into real life and take the hard knocks as it earns you the wholesome feelgood real moments too. And for goodness sakes clear your lives of controlling types, they are NOT your friends - they are incapable of thinking of anyones emotional well being apart from their own. This is why there are so many sims on each topic, you see each contolling type needs to be in charge... but what exactly are they in charge of here?? Nothing if you don't give them your lives to play with.... I know what it feels like however I know that I am the one who had the lucky escape ;)

[Lgt]

SL love connections are not real. If you tell your sl girlfriend/wife/husband/boyfriend that you "love" them, what does this mean?

Does it mean you are willing to invest real life time in getting to know them in the real world? Would you move to their city to be with them? Today. Not some magical time in the future. Would you?

Does it mean that if they were laid off from work you would lend them real world money, the way you would with someone you "love" in real life.

Does it mean that you are willing to leave your real life wife-husband-girlfriend-boyfriend? Now. Today.

For those who have an av that is a different gender or who are involved with an av that is playing a different gender than their real life gender, are you willing to go through a real life sex change and take hormones for the rest of your life and deal with being marginalized in society?

Does it mean you are willing to give your real name, picture, home phone number, work email address, main home email address to your "love"?

Does it mean that you will pay all of your "loves" real life bills both on sl and in rl while they are unemployed and playing sl instead of looking for a job?

Does it mean that you will put up with your sl "love's" 5 kids that he forgot to mention, 300 extra pounds that were not in the high school picture he shared with you, drug addiction that he never mentioned in chat in the sl club, etc....

Are you willing to tie your "love" up, put a dog collar around them, and walk them on a leash around your real life neighborhood because they are your "pet" in sl? Would you do this in front of your real life friends and family?

Sl is a game and the relationships in sl are fantasies. I do think that people can make friends online in any format whether it be a chat room, or sl, but those friends are closely tied to the context of sl or the chat room and will not feel the same when put into the bigger context of real life. Love is physical as well as emotional and spiritual. You have to touch, smell, taste, talk to , feel, a person in real life to love them. Just as mind fucks are not fucks, mind love is not deep romantic love, it is mostly fantasy.

This is what I came to believe after being addicted to sl and overcoming that addiction.

Lgt

[Julie]

They are all fabricated relationships that end in ....fabrication ;) How would one expect them to end in any other way???

[Dave in NM]

SL is people. People are all different. Ergo, connections between people are all different, whether in SL or RL. I would say all generalizations are bad, but then I would be generalizing.

[nvm]

julie your comment made me smile because I caught myself still thinking like sl is more than a game-its a game absolutely. :-)why was I shocked.

[Julie]

This comment below tickles me no end, as it shows the complete contrast of the two ideas. A lot of folk use sl and claim that it is fine as it is not real or only a game but they then get all shocked when the friendships prove to be 'only a game'... well live and learn hey...

[nvm]

Dave
Its a post and we are all allowed our opinions. I thought I had one genuine sl connection. Guess not- I could not log on because I have no internet (I am composing this from work)my sl friend let me have it for not going to his club-said I should have made more of an effort to get my computer working. I am done with sl. Apparently the friendships in sl too.

[Dave in NM]

foobar: I think your experience mirrors those of a lot of other people. I have been lucky enough to avoid the string of meaningless relationships and empty declarations of "love," but I do find myself just deeply tired of the whole experience. There is one person in SL who means a huge amount to me, but just being "in" really has no lure any longer. I'll still go in to work, because I do thoroughly enjoy machinima, and I would like to try my hand at directing one day, but I increasingly find SL itself to be tedious and uninteresting. For me, it was always about the genuine human connections to be found there. I found one, and that is as valuable as any other genuine human connection, but the environment itself really has no lure for me any more. I could see myself going weeks or months without logging in, and not really even realizing it.

Of course I fully expect The Usual Suspects to say this is just further proof of my hopeless addiction, since I couldn't possibly be telling the truth. ;^)

[foobar]

I got a bit nutty when first into SL. A group in RL that I care about a lot has a virtual presence there. Through a bit of a glitch they nearly lost their parcel and their buildings were removed. I stepped into the breech because I knew it was of importance to the group. No one else much stepped forward so I learned to build and built a new building for us. Others donated other things. I made friends and a few lovers. After a while I got tired of the love/sex as I noticed people said "I love you" much too easy and that sets off warning bells for me. I met some of these people in real life and they were good people. Others I didn't meet or didn't like what I found of their rl selves. I was spending more and more time like being a respected builder/hacker/SL personage was the most important thing. I stopped a lot of RL meetings to be at extensions of my group's meetings where mostly nothing at all happened. I felt flatter and flatter with my SL involvment. Soon it was hard to work up enthusiasm for doing much of anything there.

[nvm]

you should be proud of yourself!

funny thing-my pc lost its internet connection so I uninstalled a bunch of programs including sl. My sl "friends" that I have outside of sl dont talk much to me now that they know I'm not going to be in world.

Even though leaving sl wasn't completely my idea-the pc sort of made that decision for me-I feel a sense of relief that suprised me.

Maybe I'll be done with all that is sl -

[nvm]

you should be proud of yourself!

funny thing-my pc lost its internet connection so I uninstalled a bunch of programs including sl. My sl "friends" that I have outside of sl dont talk much to me now that they know I'm not going to be in world.

Even though leaving sl wasn't completely my idea-the pc sort of made that decision for me-I feel a sense of relief that suprised me.

Maybe I'll be done with all that is sl -

[Lgt]

Thanks for being proud of me, Souring GA peach-no more. I am proud of myself too. I read the comments that I missed in the six months I have avoided this blog and have caught up with the flame war, stories and dialogues, etc. I am only going to comment on the most recent comments, since I am not here to try to convince addicts-in-denial to change their ways, but am only here to offer hope and a positive example and support to those that truly want to leave sl.

Relationships: I thought I was in "love" with three different partners in my year on sl. I took all three relationships outside of sl, having rl sex with two of the three partners, and phone sex with all three. Two out of the three partners were married when I had sex with them. (my last partner was single, but an unemployed pothead with sexual fetishes, literally living in his parents basement)

All three of these men were men that I NEVER would have connected with in real life and wouldn't give the time of day to now. It's not that they were all creepy (although in my post sl perspective I think they were) It's that I had nothing important in common with any of them in real life. Why did I hook up with them? Because I fell in love with the FANTASY of perfect love, perfect sex, endless fun, all at a safe distance from my real life. When I met these people in real life I got rid of them quickly. I found out I didn't have anything much in common with them, and that they were wanting to take the same fantasies we played out in sl into rl, and it didn't work. Real life is REAL, not a fantasy and reality means dissagreements, fights, bills, stress, imperfect sex, job loss, hair loss, weight gain, money problems, illness, aging, etc. None of my so called "loves" could stand up to the harsh light of real life day.

I had to take my sl relationship into the face to face zone in two out of three cases to rid myself of the adreneline and the fantasy high. Emails are just as unreal as sl, so an email relationship is not reality. If you can hit the delete or backspace button and edit out your pain and anger and doubts, then the relationship is not real. Period.

Phone relationships also are not real. How do you know if the person is multitasking or not, is he watching tv with the mute button on when he has phone sex or phone footsie with you? Is there someone else in the room? You don't know. There is privacy in phone contact that creates barriers and promotes fantasy.

Real life vs SL: Now that I have been out of sl for over a year, i have so much more energy and focus. I have a huge amount of work for my graduate program that I am now in, in addition to adjusting to a new move and I am able to handle it because I don't numb out in sl. I could barely handle making dinner or even going to the bathroom when I was addicted to sl. I hated to leave the keyboard. I would pop something in the microwave, and run to the bathroom while it cooked so that I could minimize my time away from my club. I never tasted what I was eating. There is a whole year of movies, books, news, art, and interaction that I missed. It's like I was locked in a time capsule for that year I was on sl.

Anyway, enough for now. Just some random thoughts....

Lgt

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

Wow, LGT how great to hear from you!!! How happy I am to hear you have finally made your life worth living again versus only worth escaping via SL in the past!!! It's nice to hear hard work does pay off and that even the most daunting of addictions can be overcome if you really put your mind to it. I am very proud of you as you have crossed my mind in the last few months and I wondered if you had really made it out of the depths of SL or not. Lots of people try and fail, same as with any addiction. So your follow-up is a welcome breeze of fresh air around here, lol.

It sounds like leaving SL and all the fakeness behind really helped you get a grip on what was important and needed for such major positive changes. For that I could not be happier!!! Life is very short. It seems people spend so much time escaping it now, sadly only realizing it much to late in life. Since your own experiences with SL are so much different than my own (my hubby was the SL addict) it will be nice to have your point of view around here again. As someone who was so immersed in SL and had the courage to make the changes possible to overcome it, again congrats. Yippie you really made my day as well as Dr. Times showing up again and that things are still going well for him and his partner. Yes life is hard and scary but so much more worth it than hiding behind a computer!!!

PS- okay NVM so you took your SL relationship outside the game which usually is the next level most players take (in some form) to make it seem more real. Glad to see you get that it's still wrong as yes you are certainly being dishonest and emotionally cheating whether still in the game or not anymore. If you had the courage to leave SL, I am certain you can now have the strength to do what you now know necessary to end all the games your still playing. Good luck!!!

[Lgt]

Wow, it's been awhile since I have been on this blog. I stopped reading it around Jan because of all the flame wars. It's good to see some of the people back on the blog that I really related to, such as Souring GA peach.

I have been off of SL since May of 2008. If you read this entire blog, you will find my posts about a year or so ago that told my story. My life has changed DRAMATICALLY since I gave up sl and I felt I had to come back to this blog and post an epilogue to my story.

Since leaving SL, I have moved to a different state, been laid off, gone back to school to get a second graduate degree and am the happiest I have ever been in my life. Without spending all my time on sl, I was able to start to deal with the problems that I went on sl to avoid in the first place. I hated my job, it was very stressful, so I ignored it and escaped into sl where I could "be my own boss" etc... of course my sl club became just as stressful as my rl job, but if you want that story, just read my posts from about a year ago. Anyway, removing the fog of sl, made me realize that I really did hate my job, so I took a buyout during a massive layoff and used the money to move to a city that has a dramatically lower cost of living (and higher quality of life in my opinion...) My severance package also allowed me the freedom of going to to art school to get a graduate degree (I have another non art graduate degree, but really want to get an mfa) I love art school and am spending endless hours on my projects. I am taking the time I spent in sl and am creating REAL art for REAL people in the REAL world and it feels fabulous.

I never would have had the strength or focus or dedication to make such major life changes while I was addicted to sl and logging in every night. In fact sl was my substitute for such changes. Instead of moving, I built a sim and parked my virtual self there. Instead of changing jobs, or careers, I created a fake career as a club owner.

Now looking back on those sl days, it seems so sad to me that I let my fears of real change in my life cause me to settle for such a cheap imitation of change.

I will be logging into this blog more to offer support to those who are struggling to quit sl. Believe me I was super addicted to sl and if I can quit and be offline over a year and change my life anyone can.

Lgt

Since leaving

[nvm]

SL is where it started. I agree with you I suppose I'm just venting or expressing myself here. I dont log onto sl. And sometimes logging off isn't enough when you still communicate with the other person which I do outside of sl. And I have convinced myself that he is my best friend. Funny isn't it. You are exactly right in saying what you attract is what you get. So although it will be hard I cannot talk to him and I need to walk away from this friendship the same way that i walked away from sl. No my boyfriend was not fine with sl and he knew all about my friend in sl. He does not know we still communicate. Bad.

[nvm]

Oh but I dont go on sl anymore. I met him there. We email, thats it but I cannot remove this man from my head and its been years.

[Souring Ga. Peach-No More!]

Have you read through the countless pages here because that's a pretty great place to get started??? Although you claim SL not to be the problem. You must admit it is the biggest part of this problem and a major catalyst at fueling the fake fire between you two. Do you really think if this person didn't exist in the game that this same thing wouldn't happen with someone else? It's plain and simple you are CHOOSING to put yourself in a position to let these things happen every time you log into the game.

It's no different than if you were cruising the real bars trying to make a 'friend' and 'accidently' have a one night stand. In fact I consider the internet as a whole to be the last forbidden dark alley as it's a never ending supply of whatever disgusting things you can get into. Plus lots of others to chime in enough in agreement to keep you thinking your behaviors not really that bad as hey everyone else is doing it too....Gee sound like any game we all know=SL!!!

When most people claim 'I never meant for this to happen' that's bullshit as most spend so much energy/time making the exact situations take place. It's no coincidence or fate that you met this person. Nor is it some form of cosmic kismet that you two seem to have so much in common or even 'addicted' to each other. The real truth is when you go out looking for trouble, you usually find exactly what your wishing for. Lol and in this case it's every time you log into SL.

So your only having an emotional affair. Do you really think your real boyfriend is going to give you extra points on the cheating scale for this as get real you are cheating plain and simple. In fact with SL (and any affair happening via the computer) it's all about the MIND FUCK so to speak. So who really cares if your silly avatars have rubbed fantasy body parts yet as it will happen soon enough if you keep trying this hard?!? You know what your doing is wrong which is why you are here. From what you say it sounds as if you BOTH know the real deal-everyone except your real mates that is.

Now it all comes down to whether you choose to keep logging in to play out your VIRTUAL SOAP OPERA as that's exactly what SL is!!! Hopefully if you read through the hundreds of post here you will save yourself (& everyone else involved) the trouble and choose to act responsibly & respectfully. Although at the very least if your going to keep logging into LaLaLand you could be honest with your real life partner and go from there. Hey you never know perhaps he would be okay with it, lol. Yet that seems unlikely since you are already here feeling guilty about the situation you are creating. Face it, like everything else in life it all comes down to the choices you make......So the answer is pretty simple. Stop logging into SL and deal with the issues that led you there.

[nvm]

well what do you do when its not really sl but a person u met in sl that you are hopelessly addicted to. Both of us seem to suffer the same addiction issue, each other. Although there seems to be a connection and at least mind chemistry, we are only friends. But I have a boyfriend. When we dont hear from each other, both of us feel anxious. We are more like best friends but the more we talk, the more drawn to him I become and vice versa. I should mention our "friendship" has been very turbulent because we are both aware that there is an attraction thats almost unbearable but we aren't going to act on it. So how the heck does one break this addiction.

[adolescent addiction treatment]

Addiction is also sometimes applied to compulsions that are not substance-related, such as problem gambling and computer addiction. In these kinds of common usages, the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences, as deemed by the user himself to his or her individual health, mental state or social life.

-mj-
http://www.v3tucson.com/programs

[Vanity]

on a lighter note:

we should all be having this discussion in world sometime -- ;)

Vanity (last name is fruity)

[Blank]

We are all addicts in our on way.